Now a problem with mouse driver

[Rich newtech]

Now that i have the usb drivers corrected i think i will now take on the
mouse driver. When i look in the device manager the mouse port indicates that
it is working properly. However, when i plug an external mouse (one that i've
previously used with it) into the laptop prior to starting the pointer goes
wild and begins opening programs. Prior to me changing out the hard drive
this mouse worked perfectly fine with the computer. The twist is that if i
plug the mouse in after startup it works fine. Another thing to make this
strange is that i've tried two other mouses and one works ok when plugged
into the computer prior to startup. So two out of the three are squirly. Can
i remove the original drivers, plug the mouse in and reboot then install the
drivers that came with the mouse? Or should i just plug the mouse in after
startup?

Thanks in advance
Richard

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Rich newtech
Now that i have the usb drivers corrected i think i will now take on the
mouse driver. When i look in the device manager the mouse port indicates that
it is working properly. However, when i plug an external mouse (one that i've
previously used with it) into the laptop prior to starting the pointer goes
wild and begins opening programs. Prior to me changing out the hard drive
this mouse worked perfectly fine with the computer. The twist is that if i
plug the mouse in after startup it works fine. Another thing to make this
strange is that i've tried two other mouses and one works ok when plugged
into the computer prior to startup. So two out of the three are squirly. Can
i remove the original drivers, plug the mouse in and reboot then install the
drivers that came with the mouse? Or should i just plug the mouse in after
startup?
Thanks in advance
Richard

Unless it has unusual functions, you shouldn't need a driver - assuming
it's a PS/2 mouse, anyway (those must be plugged in before windows
starts).

I'm not sure about USB mice. (If it's one that can be USB or PS/2, and
you have a suitable adapter, try it with the adapter. [Not all will work
with such an adapter.])

If it's a serial mouse - really old - it can be plugged in after Windows
has started, at least at the point where Windows says it can't find a
mouse. (Again, no driver should be needed.)

[Rich newtech]

It's a ps/2 scrolling mouse. I use to use the mouse with this computer before
the hard drive crashed and i replaced it. Since then i cannot plug it in
prior to startup. This computer is my brother's and he told me that it
crashed during a lightning storm and never ran again. When i got it back the
hard drive was broken (noisy and did not boot up) so i replaced the hard
drive and since then i cannot have the mouse plugged into it prior to start
up. But it works fine if i plug it in after start up. So for some reason it
has a problem loading it during start up. Again the twist is, if i tried
several different mice and this was the only one that made the computer
squirly (during start up) than i would determine that it is the mouse. But,
because two out of the three mice that i tried, two of them made it squirly I
am thinking that something with the drive or the port is the problem.

What do you think?

Thanks

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Rich newtech
Now that i have the usb drivers corrected i think i will now take on the
mouse driver. When i look in the device manager the mouse port indicates that
it is working properly. However, when i plug an external mouse (one that i've
previously used with it) into the laptop prior to starting the pointer goes
wild and begins opening programs. Prior to me changing out the hard drive
this mouse worked perfectly fine with the computer. The twist is that if i
plug the mouse in after startup it works fine. Another thing to make this
strange is that i've tried two other mouses and one works ok when plugged
into the computer prior to startup. So two out of the three are squirly. Can
i remove the original drivers, plug the mouse in and reboot then install the
drivers that came with the mouse? Or should i just plug the mouse in after
startup?
Thanks in advance
Richard

Unless it has unusual functions, you shouldn't need a driver - assuming
it's a PS/2 mouse, anyway (those must be plugged in before windows
starts).
I'm not sure about USB mice. (If it's one that can be USB or PS/2, and
you have a suitable adapter, try it with the adapter. [Not all will work
with such an adapter.])
If it's a serial mouse - really old - it can be plugged in after Windows
has started, at least at the point where Windows says it can't find a
mouse. (Again, no driver should be needed.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **
WANTED, Dead AND Alive: Schrodinger's Cat

[glee]

Sounds like a port problem. You should NOT be able to plug in a PS/2 mouse while
the computer is already on and Windows is running, and have it work. The lightning
strike may have damaged the PS/2 connector circuitry on the motherboard.
Inserting a PS/2 mouse (or a keyboard) into the port while the computer is on can
damage the port or burn it out totally.

(Top-posting with sig at end of quoted message, to make J.P. happier. <eg>)

Post by Rich newtech
It's a ps/2 scrolling mouse. I use to use the mouse with this computer before
the hard drive crashed and i replaced it. Since then i cannot plug it in
prior to startup. This computer is my brother's and he told me that it
crashed during a lightning storm and never ran again. When i got it back the
hard drive was broken (noisy and did not boot up) so i replaced the hard
drive and since then i cannot have the mouse plugged into it prior to start
up. But it works fine if i plug it in after start up. So for some reason it
has a problem loading it during start up. Again the twist is, if i tried
several different mice and this was the only one that made the computer
squirly (during start up) than i would determine that it is the mouse. But,
because two out of the three mice that i tried, two of them made it squirly I
am thinking that something with the drive or the port is the problem.
What do you think?
Thanks

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Rich newtech
Now that i have the usb drivers corrected i think i will now take on the
mouse driver. When i look in the device manager the mouse port indicates that
it is working properly. However, when i plug an external mouse (one that i've
previously used with it) into the laptop prior to starting the pointer goes
wild and begins opening programs. Prior to me changing out the hard drive
this mouse worked perfectly fine with the computer. The twist is that if i
plug the mouse in after startup it works fine. Another thing to make this
strange is that i've tried two other mouses and one works ok when plugged
into the computer prior to startup. So two out of the three are squirly. Can
i remove the original drivers, plug the mouse in and reboot then install the
drivers that came with the mouse? Or should i just plug the mouse in after
startup?
Thanks in advance
Richard

Unless it has unusual functions, you shouldn't need a driver - assuming
it's a PS/2 mouse, anyway (those must be plugged in before windows
starts).
I'm not sure about USB mice. (If it's one that can be USB or PS/2, and
you have a suitable adapter, try it with the adapter. [Not all will work
with such an adapter.])
If it's a serial mouse - really old - it can be plugged in after Windows
has started, at least at the point where Windows says it can't find a
mouse. (Again, no driver should be needed.)

[Rich newtech]

I've been told that you should not plug in a mouse after the computer has
booted up. This is the first time i was told why. But, what are my options if
i want to use an external mouse instead of the button on the laptop? On this
older toshiba the button is located in the center of the keyboard and is
difficult to control. Sometimes after using it for long periods the mouse
begins to wonder. So i would like to use an external mouse control.

Again what do you think my options are?

Thanks

Post by glee
Sounds like a port problem. You should NOT be able to plug in a PS/2 mouse while
the computer is already on and Windows is running, and have it work. The lightning
strike may have damaged the PS/2 connector circuitry on the motherboard.
Inserting a PS/2 mouse (or a keyboard) into the port while the computer is on can
damage the port or burn it out totally.
(Top-posting with sig at end of quoted message, to make J.P. happier. <eg>)

Post by Rich newtech
It's a ps/2 scrolling mouse. I use to use the mouse with this computer before
the hard drive crashed and i replaced it. Since then i cannot plug it in
prior to startup. This computer is my brother's and he told me that it
crashed during a lightning storm and never ran again. When i got it back the
hard drive was broken (noisy and did not boot up) so i replaced the hard
drive and since then i cannot have the mouse plugged into it prior to start
up. But it works fine if i plug it in after start up. So for some reason it
has a problem loading it during start up. Again the twist is, if i tried
several different mice and this was the only one that made the computer
squirly (during start up) than i would determine that it is the mouse. But,
because two out of the three mice that i tried, two of them made it squirly I
am thinking that something with the drive or the port is the problem.
What do you think?
Thanks

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Rich newtech
Now that i have the usb drivers corrected i think i will now take on the
mouse driver. When i look in the device manager the mouse port indicates that
it is working properly. However, when i plug an external mouse (one that i've
previously used with it) into the laptop prior to starting the pointer goes
wild and begins opening programs. Prior to me changing out the hard drive
this mouse worked perfectly fine with the computer. The twist is that if i
plug the mouse in after startup it works fine. Another thing to make this
strange is that i've tried two other mouses and one works ok when plugged
into the computer prior to startup. So two out of the three are squirly. Can
i remove the original drivers, plug the mouse in and reboot then install the
drivers that came with the mouse? Or should i just plug the mouse in after
startup?
Thanks in advance
Richard

Unless it has unusual functions, you shouldn't need a driver - assuming
it's a PS/2 mouse, anyway (those must be plugged in before windows
starts).
I'm not sure about USB mice. (If it's one that can be USB or PS/2, and
you have a suitable adapter, try it with the adapter. [Not all will work
with such an adapter.])
If it's a serial mouse - really old - it can be plugged in after Windows
has started, at least at the point where Windows says it can't find a
mouse. (Again, no driver should be needed.)

--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

[glee]

Do you have an available USB port? If so, use a simple USB scrolling mouse instead
of PS/2.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

Post by Rich newtech
I've been told that you should not plug in a mouse after the computer has
booted up. This is the first time i was told why. But, what are my options if
i want to use an external mouse instead of the button on the laptop? On this
older toshiba the button is located in the center of the keyboard and is
difficult to control. Sometimes after using it for long periods the mouse
begins to wonder. So i would like to use an external mouse control.
Again what do you think my options are?
Thanks

Post by glee
Sounds like a port problem. You should NOT be able to plug in a PS/2 mouse while
the computer is already on and Windows is running, and have it work. The lightning
strike may have damaged the PS/2 connector circuitry on the motherboard.
Inserting a PS/2 mouse (or a keyboard) into the port while the computer is on can
damage the port or burn it out totally.
(Top-posting with sig at end of quoted message, to make J.P. happier. <eg>)

Post by Rich newtech
It's a ps/2 scrolling mouse. I use to use the mouse with this computer before
the hard drive crashed and i replaced it. Since then i cannot plug it in
prior to startup. This computer is my brother's and he told me that it
crashed during a lightning storm and never ran again. When i got it back the
hard drive was broken (noisy and did not boot up) so i replaced the hard
drive and since then i cannot have the mouse plugged into it prior to start
up. But it works fine if i plug it in after start up. So for some reason it
has a problem loading it during start up. Again the twist is, if i tried
several different mice and this was the only one that made the computer
squirly (during start up) than i would determine that it is the mouse. But,
because two out of the three mice that i tried, two of them made it squirly I
am thinking that something with the drive or the port is the problem.
What do you think?
Thanks

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Rich newtech
Now that i have the usb drivers corrected i think i will now take on the
mouse driver. When i look in the device manager the mouse port indicates that
it is working properly. However, when i plug an external mouse (one that i've
previously used with it) into the laptop prior to starting the pointer goes
wild and begins opening programs. Prior to me changing out the hard drive
this mouse worked perfectly fine with the computer. The twist is that if i
plug the mouse in after startup it works fine. Another thing to make this
strange is that i've tried two other mouses and one works ok when plugged
into the computer prior to startup. So two out of the three are squirly. Can
i remove the original drivers, plug the mouse in and reboot then install the
drivers that came with the mouse? Or should i just plug the mouse in after
startup?
Thanks in advance
Richard

Unless it has unusual functions, you shouldn't need a driver - assuming
it's a PS/2 mouse, anyway (those must be plugged in before windows
starts).
I'm not sure about USB mice. (If it's one that can be USB or PS/2, and
you have a suitable adapter, try it with the adapter. [Not all will work
with such an adapter.])
If it's a serial mouse - really old - it can be plugged in after Windows
has started, at least at the point where Windows says it can't find a
mouse. (Again, no driver should be needed.)

--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

[Rich newtech]

As you might remember i only have one usb port. This is the toshiba laptop
with the usb driver problems. Let me ask you this. Why is it a problem
connecting a ps/2 mouse after startup but not a problem connecting anything
else in a usb port?
You say it shouldn't work but it does work plugging it in after startup.
And, if, like you say, there is something wrong with the ps/2 port, than why
would one of the three mice i tried work ok being plugged in prior to startup
but, the other two not work properly? I'm not trying to be difficult it just
seems that this is not following any logic.

Do you agree? Any help?
Thanks

Post by glee
Do you have an available USB port? If so, use a simple USB scrolling mouse instead
of PS/2.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

Post by Rich newtech
I've been told that you should not plug in a mouse after the computer has
booted up. This is the first time i was told why. But, what are my options if
i want to use an external mouse instead of the button on the laptop? On this
older toshiba the button is located in the center of the keyboard and is
difficult to control. Sometimes after using it for long periods the mouse
begins to wonder. So i would like to use an external mouse control.
Again what do you think my options are?
Thanks

Post by glee
Sounds like a port problem. You should NOT be able to plug in a PS/2 mouse while
the computer is already on and Windows is running, and have it work. The lightning
strike may have damaged the PS/2 connector circuitry on the motherboard.
Inserting a PS/2 mouse (or a keyboard) into the port while the computer is on can
damage the port or burn it out totally.
(Top-posting with sig at end of quoted message, to make J.P. happier. <eg>)

Post by Rich newtech
It's a ps/2 scrolling mouse. I use to use the mouse with this computer before
the hard drive crashed and i replaced it. Since then i cannot plug it in
prior to startup. This computer is my brother's and he told me that it
crashed during a lightning storm and never ran again. When i got it back the
hard drive was broken (noisy and did not boot up) so i replaced the hard
drive and since then i cannot have the mouse plugged into it prior to start
up. But it works fine if i plug it in after start up. So for some reason it
has a problem loading it during start up. Again the twist is, if i tried
several different mice and this was the only one that made the computer
squirly (during start up) than i would determine that it is the mouse. But,
because two out of the three mice that i tried, two of them made it squirly I
am thinking that something with the drive or the port is the problem.
What do you think?
Thanks

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Rich newtech
Now that i have the usb drivers corrected i think i will now take on the
mouse driver. When i look in the device manager the mouse port indicates that
it is working properly. However, when i plug an external mouse (one that i've
previously used with it) into the laptop prior to starting the pointer goes
wild and begins opening programs. Prior to me changing out the hard drive
this mouse worked perfectly fine with the computer. The twist is that if i
plug the mouse in after startup it works fine. Another thing to make this
strange is that i've tried two other mouses and one works ok when plugged
into the computer prior to startup. So two out of the three are squirly. Can
i remove the original drivers, plug the mouse in and reboot then install the
drivers that came with the mouse? Or should i just plug the mouse in after
startup?
Thanks in advance
Richard

Unless it has unusual functions, you shouldn't need a driver - assuming
it's a PS/2 mouse, anyway (those must be plugged in before windows
starts).
I'm not sure about USB mice. (If it's one that can be USB or PS/2, and
you have a suitable adapter, try it with the adapter. [Not all will work
with such an adapter.])
If it's a serial mouse - really old - it can be plugged in after Windows
has started, at least at the point where Windows says it can't find a
mouse. (Again, no driver should be needed.)

--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

[glee]

Replies inline....

Post by Rich newtech
As you might remember i only have one usb port. This is the toshiba laptop
with the usb driver problems.

Yeah, I know, but I didn't know it only had one USB port....bummer.

Post by Rich newtech
Let me ask you this. Why is it a problem
connecting a ps/2 mouse after startup but not a problem connecting anything
else in a usb port?

USB ports are designed specifically for hot-swapping....inserting and removing while
the computer is powered on.
PS/2 ports are not designed for hot-swapping, and in fact can burn out the circuit
when this is done. It may not happen the first times you do it, but it is a high
risk each time. Usually mouse and keyboard connectors have a soldered-on fuse on
the motherboard, to prevent damage to the motherboard from hot-swapping. On every
system I have worked on in the last 13 years or so, connecting a PS/2 mouse after
Windows is loaded will not work at all....the system must be started with the mouse
already connected.

Post by Rich newtech
You say it shouldn't work but it does work plugging it in after startup.
And, if, like you say, there is something wrong with the ps/2 port, than why
would one of the three mice i tried work ok being plugged in prior to startup
but, the other two not work properly? I'm not trying to be difficult it just
seems that this is not following any logic.

I have no idea. I will tell you a story about a very old laptop we had here years
ago....an old 486 with a built-in trackball, and Win95 installed. Every PS/2 mouse
I tried on it would stop working a few minutes after use, and usually freeze the
computer. Only one mouse, a black IBM PS/2 mouse, would work on this system along
with the built-in trackball and its serial drivers. So that is the mouse we always
used with it, and never had a problem. I recently started that old 486 (yes it
still boots), and plugged in a mouse that was at hand....and it still did it. I dug
out that old black IBM mouse and it worked fine with it still. Go figure....no
logic.

Post by Rich newtech
Do you agree? Any help?
Thanks

That's all I've got for you.
End of reply.

Post by Rich newtech

Post by glee
Do you have an available USB port? If so, use a simple USB scrolling mouse instead
of PS/2.

Post by Rich newtech
I've been told that you should not plug in a mouse after the computer has
booted up. This is the first time i was told why. But, what are my options if
i want to use an external mouse instead of the button on the laptop? On this
older toshiba the button is located in the center of the keyboard and is
difficult to control. Sometimes after using it for long periods the mouse
begins to wonder. So i would like to use an external mouse control.
Again what do you think my options are?
Thanks

Post by glee
Sounds like a port problem. You should NOT be able to plug in a PS/2 mouse while
the computer is already on and Windows is running, and have it work. The
lightning
strike may have damaged the PS/2 connector circuitry on the motherboard.
Inserting a PS/2 mouse (or a keyboard) into the port while the computer is on can
damage the port or burn it out totally.
(Top-posting with sig at end of quoted message, to make J.P. happier. <eg>)

Post by Rich newtech
It's a ps/2 scrolling mouse. I use to use the mouse with this computer before
the hard drive crashed and i replaced it. Since then i cannot plug it in
prior to startup. This computer is my brother's and he told me that it
crashed during a lightning storm and never ran again. When i got it back the
hard drive was broken (noisy and did not boot up) so i replaced the hard
drive and since then i cannot have the mouse plugged into it prior to start
up. But it works fine if i plug it in after start up. So for some reason it
has a problem loading it during start up. Again the twist is, if i tried
several different mice and this was the only one that made the computer
squirly (during start up) than i would determine that it is the mouse. But,
because two out of the three mice that i tried, two of them made it squirly I
am thinking that something with the drive or the port is the problem.
What do you think?
Thanks

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Rich newtech
Now that i have the usb drivers corrected i think i will now take on the
mouse driver. When i look in the device manager the mouse port indicates
that
it is working properly. However, when i plug an external mouse (one that
i've
previously used with it) into the laptop prior to starting the pointer goes
wild and begins opening programs. Prior to me changing out the hard drive
this mouse worked perfectly fine with the computer. The twist is that if i
plug the mouse in after startup it works fine. Another thing to make this
strange is that i've tried two other mouses and one works ok when plugged
into the computer prior to startup. So two out of the three are squirly.
Can
i remove the original drivers, plug the mouse in and reboot then install
the
drivers that came with the mouse? Or should i just plug the mouse in after
startup?
Thanks in advance
Richard

Unless it has unusual functions, you shouldn't need a driver - assuming
it's a PS/2 mouse, anyway (those must be plugged in before windows
starts).
I'm not sure about USB mice. (If it's one that can be USB or PS/2, and
you have a suitable adapter, try it with the adapter. [Not all will work
with such an adapter.])
If it's a serial mouse - really old - it can be plugged in after Windows
has started, at least at the point where Windows says it can't find a
mouse. (Again, no driver should be needed.)

[Rich newtech]

Is it possible that there is a problem with the bios that is causing a
problem with the mouse? Maybe the lightning strike had an effect on that as
well. I know i'm grasping at straws but i'd like to see if i can correct this
problem as well.

Thanks

Post by glee
Replies inline....

Post by Rich newtech
As you might remember i only have one usb port. This is the toshiba laptop
with the usb driver problems.

Yeah, I know, but I didn't know it only had one USB port....bummer.

Post by Rich newtech
Let me ask you this. Why is it a problem
connecting a ps/2 mouse after startup but not a problem connecting anything
else in a usb port?

USB ports are designed specifically for hot-swapping....inserting and removing while
the computer is powered on.
PS/2 ports are not designed for hot-swapping, and in fact can burn out the circuit
when this is done. It may not happen the first times you do it, but it is a high
risk each time. Usually mouse and keyboard connectors have a soldered-on fuse on
the motherboard, to prevent damage to the motherboard from hot-swapping. On every
system I have worked on in the last 13 years or so, connecting a PS/2 mouse after
Windows is loaded will not work at all....the system must be started with the mouse
already connected.

Post by Rich newtech
You say it shouldn't work but it does work plugging it in after startup.
And, if, like you say, there is something wrong with the ps/2 port, than why
would one of the three mice i tried work ok being plugged in prior to startup
but, the other two not work properly? I'm not trying to be difficult it just
seems that this is not following any logic.

I have no idea. I will tell you a story about a very old laptop we had here years
ago....an old 486 with a built-in trackball, and Win95 installed. Every PS/2 mouse
I tried on it would stop working a few minutes after use, and usually freeze the
computer. Only one mouse, a black IBM PS/2 mouse, would work on this system along
with the built-in trackball and its serial drivers. So that is the mouse we always
used with it, and never had a problem. I recently started that old 486 (yes it
still boots), and plugged in a mouse that was at hand....and it still did it. I dug
out that old black IBM mouse and it worked fine with it still. Go figure....no
logic.

Post by Rich newtech
Do you agree? Any help?
Thanks

That's all I've got for you.
End of reply.

Post by Rich newtech

Post by glee
Do you have an available USB port? If so, use a simple USB scrolling mouse instead
of PS/2.

Post by Rich newtech
I've been told that you should not plug in a mouse after the computer has
booted up. This is the first time i was told why. But, what are my options if
i want to use an external mouse instead of the button on the laptop? On this
older toshiba the button is located in the center of the keyboard and is
difficult to control. Sometimes after using it for long periods the mouse
begins to wonder. So i would like to use an external mouse control.
Again what do you think my options are?
Thanks

Post by glee
Sounds like a port problem. You should NOT be able to plug in a PS/2 mouse
while
the computer is already on and Windows is running, and have it work. The
lightning
strike may have damaged the PS/2 connector circuitry on the motherboard.
Inserting a PS/2 mouse (or a keyboard) into the port while the computer is on
can
damage the port or burn it out totally.
(Top-posting with sig at end of quoted message, to make J.P. happier. <eg>)

Post by Rich newtech
It's a ps/2 scrolling mouse. I use to use the mouse with this computer
before
the hard drive crashed and i replaced it. Since then i cannot plug it in
prior to startup. This computer is my brother's and he told me that it
crashed during a lightning storm and never ran again. When i got it back the
hard drive was broken (noisy and did not boot up) so i replaced the hard
drive and since then i cannot have the mouse plugged into it prior to start
up. But it works fine if i plug it in after start up. So for some reason it
has a problem loading it during start up. Again the twist is, if i tried
several different mice and this was the only one that made the computer
squirly (during start up) than i would determine that it is the mouse. But,
because two out of the three mice that i tried, two of them made it squirly
I
am thinking that something with the drive or the port is the problem.
What do you think?
Thanks

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Rich newtech
Now that i have the usb drivers corrected i think i will now take on the
mouse driver. When i look in the device manager the mouse port indicates
that
it is working properly. However, when i plug an external mouse (one that
i've
previously used with it) into the laptop prior to starting the pointer
goes
wild and begins opening programs. Prior to me changing out the hard drive
this mouse worked perfectly fine with the computer. The twist is that if i
plug the mouse in after startup it works fine. Another thing to make this
strange is that i've tried two other mouses and one works ok when plugged
into the computer prior to startup. So two out of the three are squirly.
Can
i remove the original drivers, plug the mouse in and reboot then install
the
drivers that came with the mouse? Or should i just plug the mouse in after
startup?
Thanks in advance
Richard

Unless it has unusual functions, you shouldn't need a driver - assuming
it's a PS/2 mouse, anyway (those must be plugged in before windows
starts).
I'm not sure about USB mice. (If it's one that can be USB or PS/2, and
you have a suitable adapter, try it with the adapter. [Not all will work
with such an adapter.])
If it's a serial mouse - really old - it can be plugged in after Windows
has started, at least at the point where Windows says it can't find a
mouse. (Again, no driver should be needed.)

--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

[glee]

The only setting in the BIOS that would possibly have any effect is if you have PS/2
disabled there. Some older BIOS' had a setting to toggle PS/2. I can't think of
anything else relevant. An electrical surge could have changed the settings.

If there is any sort of electrical damage to the BIOS, I doubt you would *only* be
seeing a picky mouse port, and I doubt the mouse port would even be affected.
There'd be far worse symptoms, like not being able to boot. A damaged BIOS chip
could only be replaced....not something you would do yourself and likely this older
system would not have a ready replacement available.

Have you tried using the one mouse that works OK, for a while? Does it continue to
behave? If so, you may have to use that one, as the one that gets along with the
onboard controller.

Have you tried disabling the onboard mouse, in Device Manager?
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

Post by Rich newtech
Is it possible that there is a problem with the bios that is causing a
problem with the mouse? Maybe the lightning strike had an effect on that as
well. I know i'm grasping at straws but i'd like to see if i can correct this
problem as well.
Thanks

Post by glee
Replies inline....

Post by Rich newtech
As you might remember i only have one usb port. This is the toshiba laptop
with the usb driver problems.

Yeah, I know, but I didn't know it only had one USB port....bummer.

Post by Rich newtech
Let me ask you this. Why is it a problem
connecting a ps/2 mouse after startup but not a problem connecting anything
else in a usb port?

USB ports are designed specifically for hot-swapping....inserting and removing while
the computer is powered on.
PS/2 ports are not designed for hot-swapping, and in fact can burn out the circuit
when this is done. It may not happen the first times you do it, but it is a high
risk each time. Usually mouse and keyboard connectors have a soldered-on fuse on
the motherboard, to prevent damage to the motherboard from hot-swapping. On every
system I have worked on in the last 13 years or so, connecting a PS/2 mouse after
Windows is loaded will not work at all....the system must be started with the mouse
already connected.

Post by Rich newtech
You say it shouldn't work but it does work plugging it in after startup.
And, if, like you say, there is something wrong with the ps/2 port, than why
would one of the three mice i tried work ok being plugged in prior to startup
but, the other two not work properly? I'm not trying to be difficult it just
seems that this is not following any logic.

I have no idea. I will tell you a story about a very old laptop we had here years
ago....an old 486 with a built-in trackball, and Win95 installed. Every PS/2 mouse
I tried on it would stop working a few minutes after use, and usually freeze the
computer. Only one mouse, a black IBM PS/2 mouse, would work on this system along
with the built-in trackball and its serial drivers. So that is the mouse we always
used with it, and never had a problem. I recently started that old 486 (yes it
still boots), and plugged in a mouse that was at hand....and it still did it. I dug
out that old black IBM mouse and it worked fine with it still. Go figure....no
logic.

Post by Rich newtech
Do you agree? Any help?
Thanks

That's all I've got for you.
End of reply.

Post by Rich newtech

Post by glee
Do you have an available USB port? If so, use a simple USB scrolling mouse instead
of PS/2.

Post by Rich newtech
I've been told that you should not plug in a mouse after the computer has
booted up. This is the first time i was told why. But, what are my options if
i want to use an external mouse instead of the button on the laptop? On this
older toshiba the button is located in the center of the keyboard and is
difficult to control. Sometimes after using it for long periods the mouse
begins to wonder. So i would like to use an external mouse control.
Again what do you think my options are?
Thanks

Post by glee
Sounds like a port problem. You should NOT be able to plug in a PS/2 mouse
while
the computer is already on and Windows is running, and have it work. The
lightning
strike may have damaged the PS/2 connector circuitry on the motherboard.
Inserting a PS/2 mouse (or a keyboard) into the port while the computer is on
can
damage the port or burn it out totally.
(Top-posting with sig at end of quoted message, to make J.P. happier.
<eg>)

Post by Rich newtech
It's a ps/2 scrolling mouse. I use to use the mouse with this computer
before
the hard drive crashed and i replaced it. Since then i cannot plug it in
prior to startup. This computer is my brother's and he told me that it
crashed during a lightning storm and never ran again. When i got it back
the
hard drive was broken (noisy and did not boot up) so i replaced the hard
drive and since then i cannot have the mouse plugged into it prior to
start
up. But it works fine if i plug it in after start up. So for some reason
it
has a problem loading it during start up. Again the twist is, if i tried
several different mice and this was the only one that made the computer
squirly (during start up) than i would determine that it is the mouse.
But,
because two out of the three mice that i tried, two of them made it
squirly
I
am thinking that something with the drive or the port is the problem.
What do you think?
Thanks

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Rich newtech
Now that i have the usb drivers corrected i think i will now take on
the
mouse driver. When i look in the device manager the mouse port
indicates
that
it is working properly. However, when i plug an external mouse (one
that
i've
previously used with it) into the laptop prior to starting the pointer
goes
wild and begins opening programs. Prior to me changing out the hard
drive
this mouse worked perfectly fine with the computer. The twist is that
if i
plug the mouse in after startup it works fine. Another thing to make
this
strange is that i've tried two other mouses and one works ok when
plugged
into the computer prior to startup. So two out of the three are
squirly.
Can
i remove the original drivers, plug the mouse in and reboot then
install
the
drivers that came with the mouse? Or should i just plug the mouse in
after
startup?
Thanks in advance
Richard

Unless it has unusual functions, you shouldn't need a driver - assuming
it's a PS/2 mouse, anyway (those must be plugged in before windows
starts).
I'm not sure about USB mice. (If it's one that can be USB or PS/2, and
you have a suitable adapter, try it with the adapter. [Not all will work
with such an adapter.])
If it's a serial mouse - really old - it can be plugged in after Windows
has started, at least at the point where Windows says it can't find a
mouse. (Again, no driver should be needed.)

--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

[Rich newtech]

I've heard about "flashing the bios" so i thought that could be a problem.
The only "switch" i can find is in the mouse properties. There is a selection
of "auto" or "simultaneous". If you select auto and don't plug an external
mouse in the onboard controls work. There lies the problem. I selected auto
and re-booted (as requested) and both of them tried to work but he external
one was eratic. Once i selected auto and re-booted and it returned to
simultaneous. Then i selected auto and did not plug in an external mouse and
the on board mouse didn't respond properly. So i'm thinking that the problem
lies in this switch.

Using the external mouse that works isn't an option. That is the one i use
with my main computer and i am going to send the computer i'm repairing back
to my brother.

Any suggestions?

Post by glee
The only setting in the BIOS that would possibly have any effect is if you have PS/2
disabled there. Some older BIOS' had a setting to toggle PS/2. I can't think of
anything else relevant. An electrical surge could have changed the settings.
If there is any sort of electrical damage to the BIOS, I doubt you would *only* be
seeing a picky mouse port, and I doubt the mouse port would even be affected.
There'd be far worse symptoms, like not being able to boot. A damaged BIOS chip
could only be replaced....not something you would do yourself and likely this older
system would not have a ready replacement available.
Have you tried using the one mouse that works OK, for a while? Does it continue to
behave? If so, you may have to use that one, as the one that gets along with the
onboard controller.
Have you tried disabling the onboard mouse, in Device Manager?
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

Post by Rich newtech
Is it possible that there is a problem with the bios that is causing a
problem with the mouse? Maybe the lightning strike had an effect on that as
well. I know i'm grasping at straws but i'd like to see if i can correct this
problem as well.
Thanks

Post by glee
Replies inline....

Post by Rich newtech
As you might remember i only have one usb port. This is the toshiba laptop
with the usb driver problems.

Yeah, I know, but I didn't know it only had one USB port....bummer.

Post by Rich newtech
Let me ask you this. Why is it a problem
connecting a ps/2 mouse after startup but not a problem connecting anything
else in a usb port?

USB ports are designed specifically for hot-swapping....inserting and removing while
the computer is powered on.
PS/2 ports are not designed for hot-swapping, and in fact can burn out the circuit
when this is done. It may not happen the first times you do it, but it is a high
risk each time. Usually mouse and keyboard connectors have a soldered-on fuse on
the motherboard, to prevent damage to the motherboard from hot-swapping. On every
system I have worked on in the last 13 years or so, connecting a PS/2 mouse after
Windows is loaded will not work at all....the system must be started with the mouse
already connected.

Post by Rich newtech
You say it shouldn't work but it does work plugging it in after startup.
And, if, like you say, there is something wrong with the ps/2 port, than why
would one of the three mice i tried work ok being plugged in prior to startup
but, the other two not work properly? I'm not trying to be difficult it just
seems that this is not following any logic.

I have no idea. I will tell you a story about a very old laptop we had here years
ago....an old 486 with a built-in trackball, and Win95 installed. Every PS/2 mouse
I tried on it would stop working a few minutes after use, and usually freeze the
computer. Only one mouse, a black IBM PS/2 mouse, would work on this system along
with the built-in trackball and its serial drivers. So that is the mouse we always
used with it, and never had a problem. I recently started that old 486 (yes it
still boots), and plugged in a mouse that was at hand....and it still did it. I dug
out that old black IBM mouse and it worked fine with it still. Go figure....no
logic.

Post by Rich newtech
Do you agree? Any help?
Thanks

That's all I've got for you.
End of reply.

Post by Rich newtech

Post by glee
Do you have an available USB port? If so, use a simple USB scrolling mouse
instead
of PS/2.

Post by Rich newtech
I've been told that you should not plug in a mouse after the computer has
booted up. This is the first time i was told why. But, what are my options
if
i want to use an external mouse instead of the button on the laptop? On this
older toshiba the button is located in the center of the keyboard and is
difficult to control. Sometimes after using it for long periods the mouse
begins to wonder. So i would like to use an external mouse control.
Again what do you think my options are?
Thanks

Post by glee
Sounds like a port problem. You should NOT be able to plug in a PS/2 mouse
while
the computer is already on and Windows is running, and have it work. The
lightning
strike may have damaged the PS/2 connector circuitry on the motherboard.
Inserting a PS/2 mouse (or a keyboard) into the port while the computer is
on
can
damage the port or burn it out totally.
(Top-posting with sig at end of quoted message, to make J.P. happier.
<eg>)

Post by Rich newtech
It's a ps/2 scrolling mouse. I use to use the mouse with this computer
before
the hard drive crashed and i replaced it. Since then i cannot plug it in
prior to startup. This computer is my brother's and he told me that it
crashed during a lightning storm and never ran again. When i got it back
the
hard drive was broken (noisy and did not boot up) so i replaced the hard
drive and since then i cannot have the mouse plugged into it prior to
start
up. But it works fine if i plug it in after start up. So for some reason
it
has a problem loading it during start up. Again the twist is, if i tried
several different mice and this was the only one that made the computer
squirly (during start up) than i would determine that it is the mouse.
But,
because two out of the three mice that i tried, two of them made it
squirly
I
am thinking that something with the drive or the port is the problem.
What do you think?
Thanks

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Rich newtech
Now that i have the usb drivers corrected i think i will now take on
the
mouse driver. When i look in the device manager the mouse port
indicates
that
it is working properly. However, when i plug an external mouse (one
that
i've
previously used with it) into the laptop prior to starting the pointer
goes
wild and begins opening programs. Prior to me changing out the hard
drive
this mouse worked perfectly fine with the computer. The twist is that
if i
plug the mouse in after startup it works fine. Another thing to make
this
strange is that i've tried two other mouses and one works ok when
plugged
into the computer prior to startup. So two out of the three are
squirly.
Can
i remove the original drivers, plug the mouse in and reboot then
install
the
drivers that came with the mouse? Or should i just plug the mouse in
after
startup?
Thanks in advance
Richard

Unless it has unusual functions, you shouldn't need a driver - assuming
it's a PS/2 mouse, anyway (those must be plugged in before windows
starts).
I'm not sure about USB mice. (If it's one that can be USB or PS/2, and
you have a suitable adapter, try it with the adapter. [Not all will work
with such an adapter.])
If it's a serial mouse - really old - it can be plugged in after Windows
has started, at least at the point where Windows says it can't find a
mouse. (Again, no driver should be needed.)

--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

[Jeff Richards]

Even if disabling the built in mouse does not fix the basic problem, it
should fix the problem of the mouse pointer wandering after a period of use.
I have used three machines with this type of mouse and all of them had
problems with unwanted movement created by the mini-joystick type of mouse
control.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)

I have nothing new to suggest other than what I already suggested: try
disabling the built-in mouse in Device Manager. Usually the built-in mouse
on a laptop is shown as either a mousepad or trackball or whatever that
laptop has, or it shows as a serial mouse.
I can't tell you what may be happening with those "auto" and
"simultaneous" settings, and how they may be interacting with your PS/2
mouse. It still sounds to me like damage to the PS/2 port.
Flashing the BIOS has no bearing on this.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

[glee]

I have nothing new to suggest other than what I already suggested: try disabling the
built-in mouse in Device Manager. Usually the built-in mouse on a laptop is shown
as either a mousepad or trackball or whatever that laptop has, or it shows as a
serial mouse.

I can't tell you what may be happening with those "auto" and "simultaneous"
settings, and how they may be interacting with your PS/2 mouse. It still sounds to
me like damage to the PS/2 port.

Flashing the BIOS has no bearing on this.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

Post by Rich newtech
I've heard about "flashing the bios" so i thought that could be a problem.
The only "switch" i can find is in the mouse properties. There is a selection
of "auto" or "simultaneous". If you select auto and don't plug an external
mouse in the onboard controls work. There lies the problem. I selected auto
and re-booted (as requested) and both of them tried to work but he external
one was eratic. Once i selected auto and re-booted and it returned to
simultaneous. Then i selected auto and did not plug in an external mouse and
the on board mouse didn't respond properly. So i'm thinking that the problem
lies in this switch.
Using the external mouse that works isn't an option. That is the one i use
with my main computer and i am going to send the computer i'm repairing back
to my brother.
Any suggestions?

Post by glee
The only setting in the BIOS that would possibly have any effect is if you have PS/2
disabled there. Some older BIOS' had a setting to toggle PS/2. I can't think of
anything else relevant. An electrical surge could have changed the settings.
If there is any sort of electrical damage to the BIOS, I doubt you would *only* be
seeing a picky mouse port, and I doubt the mouse port would even be affected.
There'd be far worse symptoms, like not being able to boot. A damaged BIOS chip
could only be replaced....not something you would do yourself and likely this older
system would not have a ready replacement available.
Have you tried using the one mouse that works OK, for a while? Does it continue to
behave? If so, you may have to use that one, as the one that gets along with the
onboard controller.
Have you tried disabling the onboard mouse, in Device Manager?

Post by Rich newtech
Is it possible that there is a problem with the bios that is causing a
problem with the mouse? Maybe the lightning strike had an effect on that as
well. I know i'm grasping at straws but i'd like to see if i can correct this
problem as well.
Thanks

Post by glee
Replies inline....

Post by Rich newtech
As you might remember i only have one usb port. This is the toshiba laptop
with the usb driver problems.

Yeah, I know, but I didn't know it only had one USB port....bummer.

Post by Rich newtech
Let me ask you this. Why is it a problem
connecting a ps/2 mouse after startup but not a problem connecting anything
else in a usb port?

USB ports are designed specifically for hot-swapping....inserting and removing
while
the computer is powered on.
PS/2 ports are not designed for hot-swapping, and in fact can burn out the circuit
when this is done. It may not happen the first times you do it, but it is a high
risk each time. Usually mouse and keyboard connectors have a soldered-on fuse on
the motherboard, to prevent damage to the motherboard from hot-swapping. On every
system I have worked on in the last 13 years or so, connecting a PS/2 mouse after
Windows is loaded will not work at all....the system must be started with the mouse
already connected.

Post by Rich newtech
You say it shouldn't work but it does work plugging it in after startup.
And, if, like you say, there is something wrong with the ps/2 port, than why
would one of the three mice i tried work ok being plugged in prior to startup
but, the other two not work properly? I'm not trying to be difficult it just
seems that this is not following any logic.

I have no idea. I will tell you a story about a very old laptop we had here years
ago....an old 486 with a built-in trackball, and Win95 installed. Every PS/2 mouse
I tried on it would stop working a few minutes after use, and usually freeze the
computer. Only one mouse, a black IBM PS/2 mouse, would work on this system along
with the built-in trackball and its serial drivers. So that is the mouse we always
used with it, and never had a problem. I recently started that old 486 (yes it
still boots), and plugged in a mouse that was at hand....and it still did it.
I
dug
out that old black IBM mouse and it worked fine with it still. Go figure....no
logic.

Post by Rich newtech
Do you agree? Any help?
Thanks

That's all I've got for you.
End of reply.

Post by Rich newtech

Post by glee
Do you have an available USB port? If so, use a simple USB scrolling mouse
instead
of PS/2.

Post by Rich newtech
I've been told that you should not plug in a mouse after the computer has
booted up. This is the first time i was told why. But, what are my
options
if
i want to use an external mouse instead of the button on the laptop? On
this
older toshiba the button is located in the center of the keyboard and is
difficult to control. Sometimes after using it for long periods the mouse
begins to wonder. So i would like to use an external mouse control.
Again what do you think my options are?
Thanks

Post by glee
Sounds like a port problem. You should NOT be able to plug in a PS/2
mouse
while
the computer is already on and Windows is running, and have it work.
The
lightning
strike may have damaged the PS/2 connector circuitry on the motherboard.
Inserting a PS/2 mouse (or a keyboard) into the port while the computer
is
on
can
damage the port or burn it out totally.
(Top-posting with sig at end of quoted message, to make J.P. happier.
<eg>)

Post by Rich newtech
It's a ps/2 scrolling mouse. I use to use the mouse with this computer
before
the hard drive crashed and i replaced it. Since then i cannot plug it
in
prior to startup. This computer is my brother's and he told me that it
crashed during a lightning storm and never ran again. When i got it
back
the
hard drive was broken (noisy and did not boot up) so i replaced the
hard
drive and since then i cannot have the mouse plugged into it prior to
start
up. But it works fine if i plug it in after start up. So for some
reason
it
has a problem loading it during start up. Again the twist is, if i
tried
several different mice and this was the only one that made the
computer
squirly (during start up) than i would determine that it is the mouse.
But,
because two out of the three mice that i tried, two of them made it
squirly
I
am thinking that something with the drive or the port is the problem.
What do you think?
Thanks

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Rich newtech
Now that i have the usb drivers corrected i think i will now take on
the
mouse driver. When i look in the device manager the mouse port
indicates
that
it is working properly. However, when i plug an external mouse (one
that
i've
previously used with it) into the laptop prior to starting the
pointer
goes
wild and begins opening programs. Prior to me changing out the hard
drive
this mouse worked perfectly fine with the computer. The twist is
that
if i
plug the mouse in after startup it works fine. Another thing to make
this
strange is that i've tried two other mouses and one works ok when
plugged
into the computer prior to startup. So two out of the three are
squirly.
Can
i remove the original drivers, plug the mouse in and reboot then
install
the
drivers that came with the mouse? Or should i just plug the mouse in
after
startup?
Thanks in advance
Richard

Unless it has unusual functions, you shouldn't need a driver -
assuming
it's a PS/2 mouse, anyway (those must be plugged in before windows
starts).
I'm not sure about USB mice. (If it's one that can be USB or PS/2,
and
you have a suitable adapter, try it with the adapter. [Not all will
work
with such an adapter.])
If it's a serial mouse - really old - it can be plugged in after
Windows
has started, at least at the point where Windows says it can't find a
mouse. (Again, no driver should be needed.)

[Rich newtech]

I have looked in device manager and there does not seem to be any way i can
disable the onboard mouse controls. The only reference to mouse is the ps/2
port and it's drivers. Again i have to say that this is an eleven year old
unit and may not have some of the items that you have described.
I also tried un-installing the toshiba mouse in add/remove programs and that
didn't work either.

So i guess this is one of those problems that may not have a fix to it. If
you don't have any other suggestions i would like to thank you for your time
trying to help me with this problem.

Richard

Post by glee
I have nothing new to suggest other than what I already suggested: try disabling the
built-in mouse in Device Manager. Usually the built-in mouse on a laptop is shown
as either a mousepad or trackball or whatever that laptop has, or it shows as a
serial mouse.
I can't tell you what may be happening with those "auto" and "simultaneous"
settings, and how they may be interacting with your PS/2 mouse. It still sounds to
me like damage to the PS/2 port.
Flashing the BIOS has no bearing on this.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

Post by Rich newtech
I've heard about "flashing the bios" so i thought that could be a problem.
The only "switch" i can find is in the mouse properties. There is a selection
of "auto" or "simultaneous". If you select auto and don't plug an external
mouse in the onboard controls work. There lies the problem. I selected auto
and re-booted (as requested) and both of them tried to work but he external
one was eratic. Once i selected auto and re-booted and it returned to
simultaneous. Then i selected auto and did not plug in an external mouse and
the on board mouse didn't respond properly. So i'm thinking that the problem
lies in this switch.
Using the external mouse that works isn't an option. That is the one i use
with my main computer and i am going to send the computer i'm repairing back
to my brother.
Any suggestions?

Post by glee
The only setting in the BIOS that would possibly have any effect is if you have PS/2
disabled there. Some older BIOS' had a setting to toggle PS/2. I can't think of
anything else relevant. An electrical surge could have changed the settings.
If there is any sort of electrical damage to the BIOS, I doubt you would *only* be
seeing a picky mouse port, and I doubt the mouse port would even be affected.
There'd be far worse symptoms, like not being able to boot. A damaged BIOS chip
could only be replaced....not something you would do yourself and likely this older
system would not have a ready replacement available.
Have you tried using the one mouse that works OK, for a while? Does it continue to
behave? If so, you may have to use that one, as the one that gets along with the
onboard controller.
Have you tried disabling the onboard mouse, in Device Manager?

Post by Rich newtech
Is it possible that there is a problem with the bios that is causing a
problem with the mouse? Maybe the lightning strike had an effect on that as
well. I know i'm grasping at straws but i'd like to see if i can correct this
problem as well.
Thanks

Post by glee
Replies inline....

Post by Rich newtech
As you might remember i only have one usb port. This is the toshiba laptop
with the usb driver problems.

Yeah, I know, but I didn't know it only had one USB port....bummer.

Post by Rich newtech
Let me ask you this. Why is it a problem
connecting a ps/2 mouse after startup but not a problem connecting anything
else in a usb port?

USB ports are designed specifically for hot-swapping....inserting and removing
while
the computer is powered on.
PS/2 ports are not designed for hot-swapping, and in fact can burn out the
circuit
when this is done. It may not happen the first times you do it, but it is a
high
risk each time. Usually mouse and keyboard connectors have a soldered-on fuse
on
the motherboard, to prevent damage to the motherboard from hot-swapping. On
every
system I have worked on in the last 13 years or so, connecting a PS/2 mouse
after
Windows is loaded will not work at all....the system must be started with the
mouse
already connected.

Post by Rich newtech
You say it shouldn't work but it does work plugging it in after startup.
And, if, like you say, there is something wrong with the ps/2 port, than why
would one of the three mice i tried work ok being plugged in prior to
startup
but, the other two not work properly? I'm not trying to be difficult it just
seems that this is not following any logic.

I have no idea. I will tell you a story about a very old laptop we had here
years
ago....an old 486 with a built-in trackball, and Win95 installed. Every PS/2
mouse
I tried on it would stop working a few minutes after use, and usually freeze
the
computer. Only one mouse, a black IBM PS/2 mouse, would work on this system
along
with the built-in trackball and its serial drivers. So that is the mouse we
always
used with it, and never had a problem. I recently started that old 486 (yes it
still boots), and plugged in a mouse that was at hand....and it still did it.
I
dug
out that old black IBM mouse and it worked fine with it still. Go figure....no
logic.

Post by Rich newtech
Do you agree? Any help?
Thanks

That's all I've got for you.
End of reply.

Post by Rich newtech

Post by glee
Do you have an available USB port? If so, use a simple USB scrolling mouse
instead
of PS/2.

Post by Rich newtech
I've been told that you should not plug in a mouse after the computer has
booted up. This is the first time i was told why. But, what are my
options
if
i want to use an external mouse instead of the button on the laptop? On
this
older toshiba the button is located in the center of the keyboard and is
difficult to control. Sometimes after using it for long periods the mouse
begins to wonder. So i would like to use an external mouse control.
Again what do you think my options are?
Thanks

Post by glee
Sounds like a port problem. You should NOT be able to plug in a PS/2
mouse
while
the computer is already on and Windows is running, and have it work.
The
lightning
strike may have damaged the PS/2 connector circuitry on the motherboard.
Inserting a PS/2 mouse (or a keyboard) into the port while the computer
is
on
can
damage the port or burn it out totally.
(Top-posting with sig at end of quoted message, to make J.P. happier.
<eg>)

Post by Rich newtech
It's a ps/2 scrolling mouse. I use to use the mouse with this computer
before
the hard drive crashed and i replaced it. Since then i cannot plug it
in
prior to startup. This computer is my brother's and he told me that it
crashed during a lightning storm and never ran again. When i got it
back
the
hard drive was broken (noisy and did not boot up) so i replaced the
hard
drive and since then i cannot have the mouse plugged into it prior to
start
up. But it works fine if i plug it in after start up. So for some
reason
it
has a problem loading it during start up. Again the twist is, if i
tried
several different mice and this was the only one that made the
computer
squirly (during start up) than i would determine that it is the mouse.
But,
because two out of the three mice that i tried, two of them made it
squirly
I
am thinking that something with the drive or the port is the problem.
What do you think?
Thanks

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Rich newtech
Now that i have the usb drivers corrected i think i will now take on
the
mouse driver. When i look in the device manager the mouse port
indicates
that
it is working properly. However, when i plug an external mouse (one
that
i've
previously used with it) into the laptop prior to starting the
pointer
goes
wild and begins opening programs. Prior to me changing out the hard
drive
this mouse worked perfectly fine with the computer. The twist is
that
if i
plug the mouse in after startup it works fine. Another thing to make
this
strange is that i've tried two other mouses and one works ok when
plugged
into the computer prior to startup. So two out of the three are
squirly.
Can
i remove the original drivers, plug the mouse in and reboot then
install
the
drivers that came with the mouse? Or should i just plug the mouse in
after
startup?
Thanks in advance
Richard

Unless it has unusual functions, you shouldn't need a driver -
assuming
it's a PS/2 mouse, anyway (those must be plugged in before windows
starts).
I'm not sure about USB mice. (If it's one that can be USB or PS/2,
and
you have a suitable adapter, try it with the adapter. [Not all will
work
with such an adapter.])
If it's a serial mouse - really old - it can be plugged in after
Windows
has started, at least at the point where Windows says it can't find a
mouse. (Again, no driver should be needed.)

[glee]

I wish I had more to offer. I have read that some laptops do not show the onboard
pointing device at all in Device Manager, though all I have seen do.....*usually*
under the Mouse entry there. If it does not appear anywhere in Device Manager for
you to disable it, trying via the Mouse control panel seems the only other
alternative.

Jeff may have something further to add.....I'm short of ideas.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

Post by Rich newtech
I have looked in device manager and there does not seem to be any way i can
disable the onboard mouse controls. The only reference to mouse is the ps/2
port and it's drivers. Again i have to say that this is an eleven year old
unit and may not have some of the items that you have described.
I also tried un-installing the toshiba mouse in add/remove programs and that
didn't work either.
So i guess this is one of those problems that may not have a fix to it. If
you don't have any other suggestions i would like to thank you for your time
trying to help me with this problem.
Richard

Post by glee
I have nothing new to suggest other than what I already suggested: try disabling the
built-in mouse in Device Manager. Usually the built-in mouse on a laptop is shown
as either a mousepad or trackball or whatever that laptop has, or it shows as a
serial mouse.
I can't tell you what may be happening with those "auto" and "simultaneous"
settings, and how they may be interacting with your PS/2 mouse. It still sounds to
me like damage to the PS/2 port.
Flashing the BIOS has no bearing on this.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

Post by Rich newtech
I've heard about "flashing the bios" so i thought that could be a problem.
The only "switch" i can find is in the mouse properties. There is a selection
of "auto" or "simultaneous". If you select auto and don't plug an external
mouse in the onboard controls work. There lies the problem. I selected auto
and re-booted (as requested) and both of them tried to work but he external
one was eratic. Once i selected auto and re-booted and it returned to
simultaneous. Then i selected auto and did not plug in an external mouse and
the on board mouse didn't respond properly. So i'm thinking that the problem
lies in this switch.
Using the external mouse that works isn't an option. That is the one i use
with my main computer and i am going to send the computer i'm repairing back
to my brother.
Any suggestions?

Post by glee
The only setting in the BIOS that would possibly have any effect is if you
have
PS/2
disabled there. Some older BIOS' had a setting to toggle PS/2. I can't think of
anything else relevant. An electrical surge could have changed the settings.
If there is any sort of electrical damage to the BIOS, I doubt you would
*only*
be
seeing a picky mouse port, and I doubt the mouse port would even be affected.
There'd be far worse symptoms, like not being able to boot. A damaged BIOS chip
could only be replaced....not something you would do yourself and likely this older
system would not have a ready replacement available.
Have you tried using the one mouse that works OK, for a while? Does it
continue
to
behave? If so, you may have to use that one, as the one that gets along with the
onboard controller.
Have you tried disabling the onboard mouse, in Device Manager?

Post by Rich newtech
Is it possible that there is a problem with the bios that is causing a
problem with the mouse? Maybe the lightning strike had an effect on that as
well. I know i'm grasping at straws but i'd like to see if i can correct this
problem as well.
Thanks

Post by glee
Replies inline....

Post by Rich newtech
As you might remember i only have one usb port. This is the toshiba
laptop
with the usb driver problems.

Yeah, I know, but I didn't know it only had one USB port....bummer.

Post by Rich newtech
Let me ask you this. Why is it a problem
connecting a ps/2 mouse after startup but not a problem connecting
anything
else in a usb port?

USB ports are designed specifically for hot-swapping....inserting and
removing
while
the computer is powered on.
PS/2 ports are not designed for hot-swapping, and in fact can burn out the
circuit
when this is done. It may not happen the first times you do it, but it is a
high
risk each time. Usually mouse and keyboard connectors have a soldered-on
fuse
on
the motherboard, to prevent damage to the motherboard from hot-swapping.
On
every
system I have worked on in the last 13 years or so, connecting a PS/2 mouse
after
Windows is loaded will not work at all....the system must be started with the
mouse
already connected.

Post by Rich newtech
You say it shouldn't work but it does work plugging it in after startup.
And, if, like you say, there is something wrong with the ps/2 port, than
why
would one of the three mice i tried work ok being plugged in prior to
startup
but, the other two not work properly? I'm not trying to be difficult it
just
seems that this is not following any logic.

I have no idea. I will tell you a story about a very old laptop we had here
years
ago....an old 486 with a built-in trackball, and Win95 installed. Every PS/2
mouse
I tried on it would stop working a few minutes after use, and usually freeze
the
computer. Only one mouse, a black IBM PS/2 mouse, would work on this system
along
with the built-in trackball and its serial drivers. So that is the mouse we
always
used with it, and never had a problem. I recently started that old 486
(yes
it
still boots), and plugged in a mouse that was at hand....and it still did it.
I
dug
out that old black IBM mouse and it worked fine with it still. Go
figure....no
logic.

Post by Rich newtech
Do you agree? Any help?
Thanks

That's all I've got for you.
End of reply.

Post by Rich newtech

Post by glee
Do you have an available USB port? If so, use a simple USB scrolling
mouse
instead
of PS/2.

Post by Rich newtech
I've been told that you should not plug in a mouse after the computer
has
booted up. This is the first time i was told why. But, what are my
options
if
i want to use an external mouse instead of the button on the laptop?
On
this
older toshiba the button is located in the center of the keyboard and
is
difficult to control. Sometimes after using it for long periods the
mouse
begins to wonder. So i would like to use an external mouse control.
Again what do you think my options are?
Thanks

Post by glee
Sounds like a port problem. You should NOT be able to plug in a PS/2
mouse
while
the computer is already on and Windows is running, and have it work.
The
lightning
strike may have damaged the PS/2 connector circuitry on the
motherboard.
Inserting a PS/2 mouse (or a keyboard) into the port while the
computer
is
on
can
damage the port or burn it out totally.
(Top-posting with sig at end of quoted message, to make J.P. happier.
<eg>)

Post by Rich newtech
It's a ps/2 scrolling mouse. I use to use the mouse with this
computer
before
the hard drive crashed and i replaced it. Since then i cannot plug
it
in
prior to startup. This computer is my brother's and he told me that
it
crashed during a lightning storm and never ran again. When i got it
back
the
hard drive was broken (noisy and did not boot up) so i replaced the
hard
drive and since then i cannot have the mouse plugged into it prior
to
start
up. But it works fine if i plug it in after start up. So for some
reason
it
has a problem loading it during start up. Again the twist is, if i
tried
several different mice and this was the only one that made the
computer
squirly (during start up) than i would determine that it is the
mouse.
But,
because two out of the three mice that i tried, two of them made it
squirly
I
am thinking that something with the drive or the port is the
problem.
What do you think?
Thanks

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Rich

Post by Rich newtech
Now that i have the usb drivers corrected i think i will now take
on
the
mouse driver. When i look in the device manager the mouse port
indicates
that
it is working properly. However, when i plug an external mouse
(one
that
i've
previously used with it) into the laptop prior to starting the
pointer
goes
wild and begins opening programs. Prior to me changing out the
hard
drive
this mouse worked perfectly fine with the computer. The twist is
that
if i
plug the mouse in after startup it works fine. Another thing to
make
this
strange is that i've tried two other mouses and one works ok when
plugged
into the computer prior to startup. So two out of the three are
squirly.
Can
i remove the original drivers, plug the mouse in and reboot then
install
the
drivers that came with the mouse? Or should i just plug the mouse
in
after
startup?
Thanks in advance
Richard

Unless it has unusual functions, you shouldn't need a driver -
assuming
it's a PS/2 mouse, anyway (those must be plugged in before windows
starts).
I'm not sure about USB mice. (If it's one that can be USB or PS/2,
and
you have a suitable adapter, try it with the adapter. [Not all
will
work
with such an adapter.])
If it's a serial mouse - really old - it can be plugged in after
Windows
has started, at least at the point where Windows says it can't
find a
mouse. (Again, no driver should be needed.)

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by glee
I wish I had more to offer. I have read that some laptops do not show
the onboard pointing device at all in Device Manager, though all I have
seen do.....*usually* under the Mouse entry there. If it does not
appear anywhere in Device Manager for you to disable it, trying via the
Mouse control panel seems the only other alternative.
Jeff may have something further to add.....I'm short of ideas.

I can only echo what glee says. FWIW, on this (98SE lite, Compaq)
machine, the internal appears in DM under Mouse, as "Synaptics PS/2
TouchPad". (It also shows "Standard Serial Mouse" with an exclamation
mark; I presume that means I've plugged in a serial mouse at some point
in the past. I haven't got one plugged in at the moment.)

[Rich newtech]

There is nothing like that in my dm. When i expand the mouse it only shows
ps/2 mouse port. That's all.

Thanks for trying to help and i'll end this post.
Richard

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by glee
I wish I had more to offer. I have read that some laptops do not show
the onboard pointing device at all in Device Manager, though all I have
seen do.....*usually* under the Mouse entry there. If it does not
appear anywhere in Device Manager for you to disable it, trying via the
Mouse control panel seems the only other alternative.
Jeff may have something further to add.....I'm short of ideas.

I can only echo what glee says. FWIW, on this (98SE lite, Compaq)
machine, the internal appears in DM under Mouse, as "Synaptics PS/2
TouchPad". (It also shows "Standard Serial Mouse" with an exclamation
mark; I presume that means I've plugged in a serial mouse at some point
in the past. I haven't got one plugged in at the moment.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **
Veni Vidi Visa [I came, I saw, I did a little shopping] - Mik from S+AS Limited

[w***@gmail.com]

On Feb 5, 4:22 pm, Rich newtech

Post by Rich newtech
There is nothing like that in my dm. When i expand the mouse it only shows
ps/2 mouse port. That's all.

I can think of a few problems that could cause your failure. An
example. If the power line for that mouse is disconnected (ie fuse or
automatic resetting circuit breaker open), then the mouse is powered
via signal lines. That would cause corrupted serial data - would
explain the symptoms I read. An LED and a 200 ohm resistor
temporarily touching the two pins would even test for that.

Your problem is why more responsible computer manufacturers provide
comprehensive hardware diagnostics for free. Many who buy computers
on price do not get those (what you need to solve the problem)
diagnostics.

Numerious other useful facts might be provided if you could provide
then necessary measurements or access. Some facts may have already
been provided. But too much information is scattered among other
posts that recommend nonsense - such as a defective BIOS. If s BIOS
is corrupted, then BIOS completely crashes the computer. Anyone with
basic programming knowledge would have known that.

If I was doing this (without diagnostics), I might write a short
program to read data direct from the mouse - to actually see what the
mouse is outtputing. Or measure voltage on the appropriate wire with
a meter. But that assumes I had to fix it. Apparently the loss is
acceptable.

[glee]

Post by w***@gmail.com
snip
Numerious other useful facts might be provided if you could provide
then necessary measurements or access. Some facts may have already
been provided. But too much information is scattered among other
posts that recommend nonsense - such as a defective BIOS. If s BIOS
is corrupted, then BIOS completely crashes the computer. Anyone with
basic programming knowledge would have known that.
snip

Tom,

I suggest you re-read this thread, as you have clearly mis-read what has been
suggested in the replies. Nowhere did *anyone* replying EVER suggest that the BIOS
was defective. The original poster, Rich, ASKED if there could be "a problem with
the bios that is causing a problem with the mouse." The replies he received from
J.P., Jeff, and myself all stated that the only part the BIOS would play is if there
is a setting in that BIOS to disable the PS/2 port, and if it was in fact disabled
there. No other reference to a damaged or corrupted BIOS was made in this thread.

In fact, I specifically stated in my reply to Rich:
<quote>
"If there is any sort of electrical damage to the BIOS, I doubt you would *only* be
seeing a picky mouse port, and I doubt the mouse port would even be affected.
There'd be far worse symptoms, like not being able to boot. A damaged BIOS chip
could only be replaced....not something you would do yourself and likely this older
system would not have a ready replacement available."
</quote>

The only other reference to the BIOS was in response to Rich's query mentioned
above, where I also stated (and accurately) that an electrical surge could have
changed settings in the BIOS. I have seen this occur more than once. It is
possible, whether you choose to believe it or not, for a small surge to cause
changes in BIOS settings without damaging or totally corrupting the BIOS, and
without making the system unbootable. No one has made any statements here
suggesting that the BIOS was damaged, except for you.

There was no "nonsense" recommended in any of the replies, and I am frankly a bit
tired of seeing so many of your replies in these groups start off with attacks on
the replies of others, especially when your own statements are inaccurate. It is a
pattern you have followed literally for years in these groups.

[w***@gmail.com]

Post by glee
I suggest you re-read this thread, as you have clearly mis-read what has been
suggested in the replies. Nowhere did *anyone* replying EVER suggest that the BIOS
was defective.

I saw your responsible reply discussing BIOS chip replacement.
Flashing the BIOS is too common from those computer techs no
electrical knowledge. Those others again got their myths into this
discussion. If the BIOS had changed, then a computer typically would
not even boot. Meanwhile, your last reply dilutes that point. I
don't know all the suggestions due to speculation of BIOS failures and
other nonsense.

Suggested was one explaination per the OP's symptoms. Suggested was
one test to locate that possible failure. If true, the symptoms are
explained by a simple fuse failure. Do all symptoms agree? I don't
know. No reason to wade through them since the OP has decided to
trash an 11 year old computer.

Meanwhile, this again demonstrates why more responsible computer
manufacturers provide those comprehensive hardware diagnostics for
free. Another important point that should not be diluted by 'flashing
the BIOS' solutions.

[Buffalo]

Post by glee
Sounds like a port problem. You should NOT be able to plug in a PS/2
mouse while the computer is already on and Windows is running, and
have it work. The lightning strike may have damaged the PS/2
connector circuitry on the motherboard.
Inserting a PS/2 mouse (or a keyboard) into the port while the
computer is on can damage the port or burn it out totally.
(Top-posting with sig at end of quoted message, to make J.P. happier.

:)

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

[]

Post by glee
(Top-posting with sig at end of quoted message, to make J.P. happier.

:)

HappiER, but I'd be happiest if he interposted with snipping - but it's
no big deal, we're all different, and can get along!

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Rich newtech
It's a ps/2 scrolling mouse. I use to use the mouse with this computer before
the hard drive crashed and i replaced it. Since then i cannot plug it in
prior to startup. This computer is my brother's and he told me that it

[]

Post by Rich newtech
What do you think?

[]
Sounds to me like the port is damaged. I'd also try as another has
suggested disabling the internal "mouse" - possibly in the BIOS,
possibly in Device Manager (possibly in both).

When I've had a dodgy PS/2 connector (or forgotten to plug in the
mouse), I've generally got a message during Windows bootup something
like: "no mouse detected. You may plug in a serial mouse now; to use a
PS/2 mouse, restart the computer." If you're _not_ getting such a
message during bootup, I presume it thinks it _has_ got a mouse
connected.